BuzzenChat

I was talking to the hepdesk at buzzen, because i was having a terrible time getting into their chat as anything other then a guest. My msn chat control was corrupt, and they told me to delet it and gave me a link to re download it. HOWEVER, they told me that they are writing their own chat controll, to be released as soon as possible.

 

Lisa

Yes, Buzzen V2, the next generation of chat, is pretty cute. You can look at the screenshot preview here at http://www.buzzen.com/preview_v2.doc

I think I've read through all of the posts here, and am still left wondering....

Are buzzen, phreik and any other msn clone chat sites acting illegally by using the msn chat ocx to provide chat services?

For example:

Msn attempted to make money from their ocx by implementing subscription chat. But (to my understanding) Buzzen(and other sites) went and used the msn ocx to provide people with free chat at buzzen(and other sites). In essence, if msn took buzzen to court, msn could easily claim that buzzen stole alot of msn's potential paying customers by offering those people the use of msn chat ocx for free at buzzen. Buzzen boasts 50,000 users...that adds up to alot of $$ in damages if buzzen is using the msn ocx illegally, and if msn chooses to recover damages from buzzen.

Second, now buzzen is making money from people who register rooms. Is it like $50 per room?? Is it legal that buzzen is making this money while providing people with chat based on msn's ocx file?? or is it theft to use, and make money with someone else's copyrighted chat ocx?

I have recieved mixed information regarding this. When I talked with msn, they told me that buzzen is using the msn ocx without permission, and that msn is taking the necessary actions.

I have also talked to people on buzzen who claim that buzzen owns the patent for the msn ocx file that they are using. These people claim that buzzen admin told them this.

So these two mixed messages leave me with a sense of confusion, and I would like to know clearly from buzzen admin if you do own the patent on the msn ocx file that you are using to provide buzzen chat with, and if buzzen has explicit (in writing) permission from msn to use that ocx to provide chat at buzzen.

Also for the record, was the buzzen advertisement posted on msn chat sent officially by msn, or was it sent wrongly(unoffically) by someone supporting buzzen. Msn states they did not send that advertisement, and only encourage people to use msn messenger live. Unfortunately alot of people saw that buzzen ad on msn, and now think msn supports buzzen because of that ad. So buzzen, was that ad an official msn ad, or was it not.

For clarity sake it would be nice to recieve some clear, and exact answers from buzzen admin regarding this.

Thanks.

Copyright infringement:

§ 501. Infringement of copyright

 

(a) Anyone who violates any of the exclusive rights of the copyright owner as provided by sections 106 through 122 or of the author as provided in section 106A(a), or who imports copies or phonorecords into the United States in violation of section 602, is an infringer of the copyright or right of the author, as the case may be. For purposes of this chapter (other than section 506), any reference to copyright shall be deemed to include the rights conferred by section 106A(a). As used in this subsection, the term "anyone" includes any State, any instrumentality of a State, and any officer or employee of a State or instrumentality of a State acting in his or her official capacity. Any State, and any such instrumentality, officer, or employee, shall be subject to the provisions of this title in the same manner and to the same extent as any nongovernmental entity.

 

( The legal or beneficial owner of an exclusive right under a copyright is entitled, subject to the requirements of section 411, to institute an action for any infringement of that particular right committed while he or she is the owner of it. The court may require such owner to serve written notice of the action with a copy of the complaint upon any person shown, by the records of the Copyright Office or otherwise, to have or claim an interest in the copyright, and shall require that such notice be served upon any person whose interest is likely to be affected by a decision in the case. The court may require the joinder, and shall permit the intervention, of any person having or claiming an interest in the copyright.

 

© For any secondary transmission by a cable system that embodies a performance or a display of a work which is actionable as an act of infringement under subsection © of section 111, a television broadcast station holding a copyright or other license to transmit or perform the same version of that work shall, for purposes of subsection ( of this section, be treated as a legal or beneficial owner if such secondary transmission occurs within the local service area of that television station.

 

(d) For any secondary transmission by a cable system that is actionable as an act of infringement pursuant to section 111©(3), the following shall also have standing to sue: (i) the primary transmitter whose transmission has been altered by the cable system; and (ii) any broadcast station within whose local service area the secondary transmission occurs.

 

(e) With respect to any secondary transmission that is made by a satellite carrier of a performance or display of a work embodied in a primary transmission and is actionable as an act of infringement under section 119(a)(5), a network station holding a copyright or other license to transmit or perform the same version of that work shall, for purposes of subsection ( of this section, be treated as a legal or beneficial owner if such secondary transmission occurs within the local service area of that station.

 

(f)(1) With respect to any secondary transmission that is made by a satellite carrier of a performance or display of a work embodied in a primary transmission and is actionable as an act of infringement under section 122, a television broadcast station holding a copyright or other license to transmit or perform the same version of that work shall, for purposes of subsection ( of this section, be treated as a legal or beneficial owner if such secondary transmission occurs within the local market of that station.

 

(2) A television broadcast station may file a civil action against any satellite carrier that has refused to carry television broadcast signals, as required under section 122(a)(2), to enforce that television broadcast station's rights under section 338(a) of the Communications Act of 1934.

§ 506. Criminal offenses5

 

(a) Criminal Infringement. - Any person who infringes a copyright willfully either -

 

(1) for purposes of commercial advantage or private financial gain, or

 

(2) by the reproduction or distribution, including by electronic means, during any 180-day period, of 1 or more copies or phonorecords of 1 or more copyrighted works, which have a total retail value of more than $1,000,

 

shall be punished as provided under section 2319 of title 18, United States Code. For purposes of this subsection, evidence of reproduction or distribution of a copyrighted work, by itself, shall not be sufficient to establish willful infringement.

 

( Forfeiture and Destruction. - When any person is convicted of any violation of subsection (a), the court in its judgment of conviction shall, in addition to the penalty therein prescribed, order the forfeiture and destruction or other disposition of all infringing copies or phonorecords and all implements, devices, or equipment used in the manufacture of such infringing copies or phonorecords.

 

© Fraudulent Copyright Notice. - Any person who, with fraudulent intent, places on any article a notice of copyright or words of the same purport that such person knows to be false, or who, with fraudulent intent, publicly distributes or imports for public distribution any article bearing such notice or words that such person knows to be false, shall be fined not more than $2,500.

 

(d) Fraudulent Removal of Copyright Notice. - Any person who, with fraudulent intent, removes or alters any notice of copyright appearing on a copy of a copyrighted work shall be fined not more than $2,500.

 

(e) False Representation. - Any person who knowingly makes a false representation of a material fact in the application for copyright registration provided for by section 409, or in any written statement filed in connection with the application, shall be fined not more than $2,500.

 

(f) Rights of Attribution and Integrity. - Nothing in this section applies to infringement of the rights conferred by section 106A(a).

If you dont wanna read thru all this, click here

Also, there are notes about online copyright infringement there to. It's to long to paste here however.

hi X-fusion, thanks for the copyright info. The trouble I am having with all of this is that some people at buzzen are claiming that buzzen owns the patent, copyright, for the msn chat ocx file that they are using to provide chat on at buzzen. These people have said that when they registered their room with buzzen, buzzen staff told them that buzzen owns the patent for the ocx. On the other hand, msn has told me that buzzen is using the ocx without permission, and that msn is taking action.

So I would like to know from buzzen (remko is it?) if buzzen owns the patent, copyright, for the msn chat ocx that they are using to provide buzzen chat with, or if msn has given them explicit, in writing, permission to use that ocx to provide buzzen chat services. Also I wanted to know if the buzzen ad, which ran on msn, was it officially from msn, or was it from some dolt sending it unofficially in a silly attempt to support buzzen chat. Alot of people seem to think msn officially sent this ad for buzzen, and that msn supports buzzen chat.

The msn groups chat broadcast message, from what I learned, was real transmitted by a MSN Sysop. As for msn's ocx, Buzzen does not own its copyright and patent, and they are not going to use it for long. They will use its own for the upcoming future. I don't know why some of their staffers get the idea that Buzzen owns the rights and such. I'd think they have been misinformed. However, I hope any of their three Admins can clarify this matter for you further.

The msn groups chat broadcast message, from what I learned, was real transmitted by a MSN Sysop. As for msn's ocx, Buzzen does not own its copyright and patent, and they are not going to use it for long. They will use its own for the upcoming future. I don't know why some of their staffers get the idea that Buzzen owns the rights and such. I'd think they have been misinformed. However, I hope any of their three Admins can clarify this matter for you further.

fanfare I heard it was an msn sysop who sent the buzzen ad over msn chat, but I also heard that the msn sysop was NOT acting officially under msn guidance, but took it upon his or herself to post an ad for buzzen(illegally).

the sysop was not acting officially under msn's orders.

the sysop was not acting officially under msn's orders.

I suspect that sysop has defected to Buzzen afterward, since it was clear that the groups chat was going to close. I'm not sure which sysop did it, but I know MSN UK and Germany chat had moved to groups chat after Microsoft decided to close its global chatrooms, except the US one, which was closed on Oct. 16th, 2006.

i think all her questions have been answered before.. i know i'm not staff but i'm willing to rehash it lol

No the ocx isn't theirs, they have no claim to it. I'm 99.9% sure MSN isn't going to do squat about sites using their ocx.

Buzzen has a new ocx in the works which looks much better than msn's

If someone from buzzen told you they owned the ocx they were most likely misinformed or just flat out lying to get you to stay. I doubt the main staff would tell you that. It's been stated in several places that they don't and they are working on their own as a replacement.

The Sysop that put out the message did so on their own with no order or support from MSN. ( i've heard from several people the person is now part of buzzen staff ) I let you form your own opinions on that matter.

As for charging for some room types.. That's their right I guess. If someone is willing to pay for that then by all means go for it. They aren't paying for the ocx anyways. They are paying for a room on the servers which buzzen has to pay for i'm sure.

I think it's time everyone cut them some slack. They seem to be willing to do the right thing. They say they are working hard to put out their own ocx which was my only issue with them. Just wait and see. Even with the new ocx you can bet they are going to get a ton of ppl telling them they wished they kept the msn ocx. So either way ppl are going to fuss but i think they are doing the right thing by putting out their own ocx or flash or whatever gui they are planning.. The main goal in all of this is having good places to chat.

hey djv, suppose you were in the webpage making business, and you created several webpage templates. You were charging people $$ to use those webpage templates...but then some smart alec came along and decided to give your template to people for free...

How would you feel about that?

Msn was trying to charge for the use of their ocx, and buzzen went and let people enjoy its use for free on buzzen servers. Pathetic is the only word for buzzen.

Frankly buzz buzz, buzzen is attracting alot of flies. Glad I'm not a fly.

Frankly buzz buzz, buzzen is attracting alot of flies. Glad I'm not a fly.

i can't help it lol that's funny.

err0r that is a very gracious attitude to take, but whether or not msn does file charges against buzzen or other msn clones is not the point. illegal is illegal, and I simply want to know if buzzen acted legally or not.

Is what buzzen did, and is doing legal in regards to using the msn ocx to provide buzzen chat services. Hooray for them that they are developing their own ocx, too bad they didn't do it right from the start.

Should we support buzzen and pat them on the back for doing what they did with the msn ocx. I don't think so. If they did not have permission from msn to use that ocx, they were like leaches using msn for their own gain. Sad.

the legal matter of them using the ocx is very questionable either way... Now if they offer it for download or edit the ocx then it's very illegal. But just by using an ocx that's already on someone's computer anyways is a different matter when it comes to legal or not. It's a very grey area. Before you comment on the attitude i take i think maybe you should read more of my posts on this matter. I've been against anyone using msn ocx from the very start. I understand your concerns as I had/have the same ones.

Well just to set the record straight I will clear some things up.

1) Buzzen has no affiliation with MSN or Microsoft.

2) Buzzen does not OWN the MSN.OCX.

3) Buzzen has no rights to the MSN.OCX.

4) Buzzen does in no way "use" the MSN.OCX.

5) The MSN Broadcast message was real but seeing as though I don't work for MSN I can't tell you if it was official or not.

6) Any Buzzen staff that said we have exclusive rights to use or that we own the MSN.OCX is grossly misinforming you.

With those points made let me elaborate:

Buzzen merely allows the (now retired) MSN.OCX to connect to its servers.

The MSN.OCX is nothing more then an extremely limited graphical ircx client, similiar to many other clients that could also connect to buzzen if a user so endeavored.

Some of these clients include but are not limited to Pjirc, Comic Chat, mIRC, Pirch and a plethora of others. Any client that can process irc/ircx commands could be made to work on Buzzen.

It is true that many find the MSN.OCX a popular way to connect to our network, but that in NO WAY implies we own or have special rights to it.

Alot of users connect via the mIRC client, does that mean we own rights to that as well?

It is not our responsibilty to enforce what your preference of chat client is, whether it be the MSN.OCX or mIRC or Pirch. We are happy to serve our users and provide them a place to enjoy the chat client they prefer.

I hope that helps to clear some things up for you.

Admin_Jay

Buzzen Administration

ERRRR HEM

SHAGMAN kingoftheclones wieghs in...

Now while in call conferences and on through messenger back when this clone concept was unravelling. I think some have heard this before...or maybe not. But yes....Jay and I knew it was illegal but we wanted to ride the wave of popularity...it made good marketing sense because we knew the potential to use the msn ocx, till we came out with our own. Mohamed would have been squat had we gone a different direction, because he was just a lil boy with a script that managed to connect to the ocx. But we had the marketing strategy,and we probably would have been squat too if we went another direction. When we approached mohamed we saw the potential. Why do u think i fought so f;;kin hard to keep my hard work lol

Well just to set the record straight I will clear some things up.

 

Buzzen merely allows the (now retired) MSN.OCX to connect to its servers.

The MSN.OCX is nothing more then an extremely limited graphical ircx client, similiar to many other clients that could also connect to buzzen if a user so endeavored.

Some of these clients include but are not limited to Pjirc, Comic Chat, mIRC, Pirch and a plethora of others. Any client that can process irc/ircx commands could be made to work on Buzzen.

 

It is true that many find the MSN.OCX a popular way to connect to our network, but that in NO WAY implies we own or have special rights to it.

Alot of users connect via the mIRC client, does that mean we own rights to that as well?

 

It is not our responsibilty to enforce what your preference of chat client is, whether it be the MSN.OCX or mIRC or Pirch. We are happy to serve our users and provide them a place to enjoy the chat client they prefer.

I hope that helps to clear some things up for you.

Admin_Jay

Buzzen Administration

Thanks for clearing some things up for me. The reply you gave about 'Buzzen merely allowing the (now retired) MSN.OCX to connect to its servers', is a very passive attempt to pass the blame for buzzens inappropriate behavior onto the chatters. Infact buzzen specifically requires webchat users to download the msn.ocx in order to chat with webchat.

Is special software required to chat in Buzzen?

Upon arrival to Buzzen Chat, special and safe software is installed onto your computer. This program is downloaded to “C:/WINDOWS/Downloaded Internet Programs” and will remain on your computer unless you remove it manually.

To re-install the Chat Control users of windows should go to C:/WINDOWS/Downloaded Internet Programs. Then you should find "MSN Chat Control 4.5" with a speech bubble icon. Right click this and select "Remove" Ensure all IE browsers are closed and attempt to rejoin a chat room. The control should automatically reinstall.

Glad that you are working on your own ocx, just sad to see buzzen set such a poor example of net behavior. (even sadder to see so many try to justify the wrong being done by buzzen as right, simply because they didn't like the big dog msn.)

I simply cannot imagine trusting a chat service to act rightly in regards to its users after it has shown as questionable of ethics as buzzen (and all clones) have shown. That is my personal opinion.

yeah i'm gonna have to go with her on part of that.. you can't really say you have no part of the ocx when you access it though the ocx. It's true there are other ways to connect but i'm willing to bet 95% of the users there connect through the ocx. And it's not really like you offer alot of other choices to connect other than the ocx.. A user would have to go out of their way to connect another way as your main way uses the ocx.

lol i'm trying to give the best views from both sides but you can't argue the point that way.

Who said chat was ethical?...as far as im concerned its got all of the same backstabbing, gossip, and popularity cliques as high school. Only some of us are in our 30's and 40's

oh who cares, msn chat is closed. I'm sure if you remove the ocx it cant be redownloaded ( only if you download else where) but having said that I'm pretty sure buzzen is prepared if and when that happens.

shagman that's a very poor attitude to have about things. i see that alot now, especially in todays younger generation. They somehow justify unethical things by saying either hey everyone else does it or it's not hurting anyone.. glad the majority of the world doesn't think that way. The world is already very shitty because a minority of ppl think that way. ah well i'm getting old i guess lol..

oh just wanted to add.. i do many things online as well as in life that are wrong and some are unethical probably but i know they are wrong lol. i just do it anyways but i dont' justify it.