Cloning on Buzzen?

If alot of users were ok with an ocx change, they wouldnt be relying on the msn ocx to keep themselves afloat.

And if alot of users were okay with them them illegally using the msn.ocx, their would be no need for them to veil the issue, or mislead people with only partially true statements, and even utterly false statements.

(Sure in our world there is a small percentage of people who are OK with illegal activity---but that small percentage is by no means the majority of our population. Most people will only participant in illegal activity if they can find some way to deny it's illegal status to themselves.-----> Which is exactly what is happening at buzz. Few people actually WANT to dig and find out that using that msn.ocx is illegal--cause then it might challenge them to move to a smaller, but legal chat network.) All I can say is that when people start moving, and word gets around, alot of people would be perfectly willing, and even happy to mass exodus to a legal place.

Buzz seems to be between a rock and hard place --> Can't really switch to their own legal ocx, cause it might cost them chatters $$, and can't be totally open and honest with people about the whole messy ocx situation either, cause again......... it might cost them chatters $$.

It seems like they see their best option as maintaining a veiled level of partial truths, in order to cover the reality that the majority of people simply wouldn't want to support their illegal choice. They seem to be avoiding actually implementing their own ocx, and have chosen to just talk about it instead, for years now? It seems like that strategy is yet another way to deflect people away from getting too worked up over using msn's chat software illegally--if they should happen to find out about it.

To all those people who don't care if something is illegal--that is your choice, but please don't color the rest of the world with the same paint brush, because there are still alot of us around who DO CARE. The very foundation of our society is honesty and right living, and the majority of people continue to live that way. Why do you think buzz was so successful in collecting all those $50 donations? Cause people are willing to do what they can to help others out, and treat them fairly. Alot of people think it is fair and right to help financially support a server they use---and it is most of those people who tend to shy away from illegal activities. That's why paid rooms are moving--cause once they found out that it is illegal to use someone elses copyrighted stuff without permission--they could not bring themselves to continue supporting a chat service that did that.

And lasty---just because every person in a room is doing the illegal activity--doesn't make that illegal activity right, or legal.

Molson stated that chats that dont have the MSN ocx doesnt have many users i will state my case on that as VSIXc is doing fairly well without the MSN ocx, at least they worked for what they got unlike other chat servers.

not worth the bother lol

Yeah look at the chats that actucally use their own ocx, they dont get very many users.

VSIXc is doing quite well actually. Keep in mind, its a european based server, so, in won't be as popular to most of us away from Europe. But, then again, most that were on MSN never really got outside of their houses.

i also get the sense that IRCx isn't in it for money. Meaning he really isn't approaching it as a business. Much like I approached doing TG. He's seems content on just trying to give the people that chat on his network a great place to chat. Buzz is on the other end of the spectrum. They are running buzz as a business. Many times in the business world you end up doing things that aren't really right but what's right for the business.

So far this seems to be the long and short of it.

User1: Using the ocx is illegal

User2: Who cares

User3: Other people are doing illegal things too.

Those are the stances in their most basic form. move on time.

i also get the sense that IRCx isn't in it for money. Meaning he really isn't approaching it as a business. Much like I approached doing TG. He's seems content on just trying to give the people that chat on his network a great place to chat.

That's probably the truest statement I've seen about VSIXc on the forum. Ike doesn't care about money. He never has, and probably never will. He has a donation button so small on the front page, most miss it upon going to VSIXc. Shouldnt that say something? He runs it with a dedicated staff, great core group of users and rooms and people that know VSIXc will be here no matter what. He doesn't ask for money, nor does he want money. He keeps the space and bandwidth and prices on his own terms without requesting money, except for the donations.

Well I dont really think people who chat on "THE CHAT THAT WE DARE NOT SPEAK IT'S NAME". I think they dont really care if they are using the msn ocx or not. It's place to chat and it's where all they're friends are.

deanne i am waiting for some kind of email or letter that you base your findings on!

something that sez that certain parties are using the ocx illegally i myself am still searching for such information lol!

Perhaps remond will reply soon!

Yahoo I have posted several email responses from msn stating their offical position as being ANYONE WHO USES THE MSN.ocx WITHOUT PERMISSION IS DOING SO ILLEGALLY.

In the past yahoo, "THE CHAT THAT WE DARE NOT SPEAK IT'S NAME" has tried to worm their way out of this by stating that they don't actually USE the msn.ocx---rather it's the chatters who are choosing to illegally use the msn.ocx. (lol) But has "THE CHAT THAT WE DARE NOT SPEAK IT'S NAME" forgot that an accomplis to a crime stands as guilty as the one who actually commits the crime? Requiring people to use the msn.ocx in order to participate in webchat makes "THE CHAT THAT WE DARE NOT SPEAK IT'S NAME" even more responsible.

Yahoo, stop pushing the responsiblity off on others, and take the time to do the digging personally. With that said, and because yahoo specifically asked me to provide the emails that I am basing my information on, I will post the 4 responses I have personally recieved from msn on this matter:

Thank you for writing back to Windows Live ID Technical Support. .

 

My name is Chevy and I am a Subject Matter Expert within the Windows Live ID department. Your e-mail was escalated to me and I am writing in response to your inquiry regarding the legality of www."THE CHAT THAT WE DARE NOT SPEAK IT'S NAME".com and www.phreik.com as chat services. I know how important it is to have your concern attended to at the soonest time possible. Please accept my apologies for the delay and for any inconvenience this may have been causing you.

 

Thank you for reporting these sites to us. We have noted it for investigation. We are continually striving to make our support services the leader in the industry and take all feedback, positive and negative, very seriously.

 

Our Product Team is still in process of investigating the sites that you have provided. However, we cannot commit to a specific time frame as to when this investigation will be released though.

 

You are a valuable customer to MSN and we are glad to give you consistent and effective service.

 

Thank you for using Windows Live ID.

 

Sincerely,

 

Chevy

Subject Matter Expert

Windows Live ID Technical Support

Thank you for writing to Windows Live ID Technical Support.

 

This is Deos and I have read from your message that you would like to know if it is legal for you to use msn.chat.ocx at other chat services. I know how important this is to you and I am pleased to have this opportunity to assist you.

 

After reviewing the information you provided, I have determined that we will need to do further investigation.

 

Although I do not have a definite time as to when this will be resolved, I want you to know that I am engaging additional resources to help me investigate. As soon as we have more information, either myself or another member of our support team will be in contact with you.

 

I know how important it is to have your concern addressed immediately. Please accept my apologies for not being able to assist you fully.

 

You are a valuable customer to MSN and we are glad to give you consistent and effective service.

 

Sincerely,

 

Deos

Windows Live ID Technical Support.

Thank you for writing back to Windows Live ID Technical Support.

 

As I have read your recent e-mail, I understand that you want to know if it is legal for other site to use MSN Chat ocx. My name is Omai and I am here to address your inquiry. I also apologize for the delay in response.

 

I would like to inform you that using MSN data files, including MSN Chat ocx, by any third party sites without any permission is illegal. They must receive permission first for them to use MSN Chat ocx.

 

The usage of MSN ocx of the sites www."THE CHAT THAT WE DARE NOT SPEAK IT'S NAME".com and www.phreik.com is currently under investigation.

 

Thank you for bringing up this issue.

 

Sincerely,

Thank you for writing back.

 

As I have read your message, I understand that you are concerned about the legality of MSN Chat's ocx file. My name is Omai and I am here again to assist you and I apologize for the delay in response.

 

In response to your concern, please be advised that I have forwarded this issue to our legal department and they are currently working and investigating this issue.

 

As I have mentioned before, using MSN Chat's ocx is illegal unless we have provided them permission.

 

I appreciate your time and effort.

 

Sincerely,

 

Omai

Subject Matter Expert

Windows Live ID Technical Support

So for the record yahoo--did msn provided buzz en with permission to build buzz en webchat around the msn.ocx?

ps..I don't know if it is true, but people at buzz en have told me that buzz en is legal because msn messenger supports buzz en buddies. If buzz en buddies do work on msn messenger, it is not legally, because buzz en is NOT listed on the authorized list: http://messenger.msn.com/Help/Authorized.aspx

Authorized 3rd Party Software and Services

 

Any 3rd party software clients, services or applications not listed below are not authorized by Microsoft to connect to the .NET Messenger Service. Note that connecting the clients, services or applications listed below to the .NET Messenger Service may require a separate service agreement with Microsoft.

 

Microsoft, MSN and Windows are registered trademarks of Microsoft Corporation. The names of actual companies and products mentioned herein may be the trademarks of their respective owners.

 

 

.NET Messenger Programs and Authorized Vendors

 

Messenger Connect for Enterprises - ISV

Symantec

Akonix

FaceTime

BOT - ISV

Colloquis

Infinite Agent

Wisebuddy (Korea)

Akonix

Daumsoft

Oberon

Media Republic

Incesoft

Personal Expression Content Partners

American Greetings/Blue Mountain

WisePost (Korea)

3H (Sweden, France, Germany)

SawYou (UK, Spain, Belgium, Netherlands)

3rd Party Clients

NCSoft

Yahoo

**And yahoo...in order to avoid confusion--->I don't think they mean YOU.

Should add in "emotions" too

Well I dont really think people who chat on "THE CHAT THAT WE DARE NOT SPEAK IT'S NAME". I think they dont really care if they are using the msn ocx or not. It's place to chat and it's where all they're friends are.

Most are uninformed. What happens if MSN decides to go to real extremes and takes the ocx offline, and decides to persue legal actions against Buzz en or any other clone network and they're forced to create their own ocx.

Oh I'm sure they are ready for that if ever happens. People having been trying for years to shut down these chats without any success, so I dont see the point of them trying, cause they aren't getting anywhere. We all know that msn does not care if they use it or not, because they would of shut it down along time ago.

Well it doesnt hurt to have an backup plan, now does it?

Well I dont really think people who chat on "THE CHAT THAT WE DARE NOT SPEAK IT'S NAME". I think they dont really care if they are using the msn ocx or not. It's place to chat and it's where all they're friends are.

Molson, the fact of the matter is that some people care enough that as soon as they found out buzz en was illegally using the msn.ocx--they left. I have seen both paid rooms and none-paid rooms pack up and leave because they DON'T like the fact that buzz en used the msn.ocx illegally--and the fact that "THE CHAT THAT WE DARE NOT SPEAK IT'S NAME" concealed this from them made them feel gulliable and foolish.

So Molson, you seem to be under the mis-understanding that no one cares, and that the whole world supports illegal activity. lol I'll break this to you gently Molson, alot of people still care.

The fact of the matter is that"

1) Some people don't care.

2) Some people do care.

3) The majority of our society still tries to stay within the legal boundaries, and does NOT knowingly support illegal activity. Despite this, there are some people who don't care if they participate in illegal behavior, and there are also some people who prefer illegal behavior.

4) Buzz en realizes that the majority of people in our society are honest and willing to treat others rightly and fairly, and hence they have tried to color the whole issue, and mislead people into believing that "THE CHAT THAT WE DARE NOT SPEAK IT'S NAME" is perfectly legal, and on the up and up in everything it does, all the while playing on the generous and trusting side of those people, and hitting them up for financial donations. It's a sad situation, and personally I consider buzz en tactics to predatory. --->feeding off the trusting and generous nature of alot of people.

Well it doesnt hurt to have an backup plan, now does it?

If there was a regular plan in place, a backup plan wouldnt be sufficient. In any event, the msn ocx will get old, and people will get tired of scripting/chatting on it.

i also get the sense that IRCx isn't in it for money. Meaning he really isn't approaching it as a business. Much like I approached doing TG. He's seems content on just trying to give the people that chat on his network a great place to chat. Buzz is on the other end of the spectrum. They are running buzz as a business. Many times in the business world you end up doing things that aren't really right but what's right for the business.

 

So far this seems to be the long and short of it.

 

User1: Using the ocx is illegal

 

User2: Who cares

 

User3: Other people are doing illegal things too.

 

Those are the stances in their most basic form. move on time.

User4: Using the ocx is illegal? It can't be because buzz en told me they weren't doing anything illegal!

User5: Using the ocx isn't illegal!! buzz en owns the copyright on it!

User6: Using the ocx isn't illegal!! google supports buzz en ads!

User7: MSN endorses buzz en--didn't you see the ads??

User8: MSN supports buzze n becaues you can use your buzz en buddies on messenger.

User9: Buzz en just rents server space from msn.

User10: I was gulliable, and sent money to a group of small time conners.

User11: I was so stuipd!

User12: I hate buzz en, and know its illegal....but everyone else is there.

err0r I agree that ircx is doing it because he cares about people--not the money. Buzz en on the other hand cares about the money, and only the people so far as they provide the money.

Ircx once said that he wasn't putting ads on vsixc because he hated getting ad cookies on his computer, and wasn't going to put them on other peoples computer. Even though ircx realized he could makey money with ads, ircx chose to uphold his morals, and treat other people how he would want to be treated. I have alot of respect for ircx, because ultimately he does what he thinks is right, even if it means forfeiting money from ads. The whole of VSIXc is built on this kind of foundation--and in the long run, a slowly built structure on a solid foundation always outlasts and out performs a tall but shodily built straw hut on a foundation of illegal sand.

ty deanne that is what i wanted, now i all i need is a response from microsoft redmond!

i don't include those here because no one here would believe any of those. we've been around the block so to speak. I've yet to see anyone come forward here with an arguement stating they thought buzz was a part or affiliated with MSN. If there are indeed people like that out there then they could have simply read up on it at TG. ( as we are in the business of helping chatters )

i don't include those here because no one here would believe any of those. we've been around the block so to speak. I've yet to see anyone come forward here with an arguement stating they thought buzz was a part or affiliated with MSN. If there are indeed people like that out there then they could have simply read up on it at TG. ( as we are in the business of helping chatters )

Unfortunately err0r not everyone reads up on the issue---and honstly, even if they did read all the posts here, they would be caught between believing what us scriptors say about it being illegal, and what buzz en admin say about 'buzz en doing nothing illegal'. So even here, people can read two sides of the story.

Buzz en admin_jay absolutely insists that buzz en has done nothing illegal, and alot of chatters look up to them as a professional and trustworthy corporation---and so all of us saying buzz en using the msn.ocx is illegally sound like a bunch of small time scriptors who don't really know what we are talking about.

Sure I know there are some of us who KNOW it is illegal---but alot simply think we are lying about it. Just last week I was at buzz en talking about this issue, and one of the chatters rushed to the buzz en help desk to find out if what I was saying was true. They returned to inform me that I was lying, because buzz en help desk staff told them buzz en was NOT doing anything illegal. lol

why would i lie?

I'm a subject matter expert.

we don't lie

All you can do is inform. It's up to the person what they do with that information. If they are indeed lying to their users that will have consequences i'm sure.